Lore Question regarding Orc Clans (2024)

Originally Posted by Syegfryed

If he think they did, that is in the scope of what they could ask.

I mean, they didn't found problem in genocide ogres and demolishing Goria either, they had reasons after all, so if there is reason he would not bother much in taking lives, which is the case yet again when he fight dwarves in alterac.

Im talking about the cataclysm questing, Drekthar didn't refuse to aid the forsaken because there was a genocidal war of aggression from them, he refuse because he didn't want to, didn't like then and how they fought.

They couldn't talk to them after Kil'jaeden messed with things.
Ancestors absolutely had problems with demolishing Goria, did you even read that passage? Moreover blowing up a single city is not a genocide.

The way that the Forsaken fought is intextricably linked to the fact that they were waging an unjust and genocidal war.

Circling back, https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Only_the_Best_Will_Do it seems at the very least that there's a goblin who think she's a laughing skull.

The laughing skull definitely seem like the type that they'd allow others to join so long as it's 'fun'.

Originally Posted by Skytotem

They couldn't talk to them after Kil'jaeden messed with things.
Ancestors absolutely had problems with demolishing Goria, did you even read that passage? Moreover blowing up a single city is not a genocide.

did they? as far i remember they had to, because of what the ogres were making.

The way that the Forsaken fought is intextricably linked to the fact that they were waging an unjust and genocidal war.

They were not "unjust and genocidal"

you can say the blight is bad, because destroy the land, and Drek'thar would sure have a problem with that, but he would obviouslly, still dislike the forsaken who use it, proving my point he don't like then.

did we forget how everyone was against the undead joining and they only did because the taurens vouch for then?

Circling back, https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Only_the_Best_Will_Do it seems at the very least that there's a goblin who think she's a laughing skull.

Yeah, she thinks she is.

The laughing skull definitely seem like the type that they'd allow others to join so long as it's 'fun'.

the laughing skull is dead, all the clans frm AU were gone, and only the maghar remain.

I imagine there's a spectrum within the clans for how willing they are to include outsiders. Frostwolves, Blackrock and Warsong are legacy clans. I think its more of a question of why would they induct individuals who don't share their same ancestory? Probably possible for a non-orc to join these clans but one would have to do something extremely exceptional.

As for Burning Blade and Shattered Hand, they seem to be more open as their clan exists more to serve a function or common goal rather than share a lineage. I believe both of them have had non-orcs filing positions of leadership. Of course that was mostly in Vanilla and the lore might of changed by now or the clans have been reformed by the event of the Kosh'harg.

Originally Posted by Syegfryed

did they? as far i remember they had to, because of what the ogres were making.

They were not "unjust and genocidal"

the laughing skull is dead, all the clans frm AU were gone, and only the maghar remain.

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1. Why does that preclude them not being happy with doing it? It's not a binary where you're either happy to fight or refuse to. You can fight and do evil but necessary things and not be a gleefully cackling madman about it.

2. What the Forsaken were doing is, at the -very least- Ethnic cleansing.

3. Literally untrue. Kaz is around in BFA setting goren loose. https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Kaz...le_for_Azeroth

I don't like the time travel AU nonsense at all, I consider it a cancerous tumor on the story, but it's canon. We all have to deal with it.

Originally Posted by Skytotem

1. Why does that preclude them not being happy with doing it? It's not a binary where you're either happy to fight or refuse to. You can fight and do evil but necessary things and not be a gleefully cackling madman about it.

Thats the point, he did what was necessary, but didn't aid the forsaken against the enemy when needed, solely by the fact he didn't like forsaken and his tactics.

2. What the Forsaken were doing is, at the -very least- Ethnic cleansing.

no

3. Literally untrue. Kaz is around in BFA setting goren loose. https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Kaz...le_for_Azeroth

??? ok...?

She being alive matters nothing, the clan is dead, the whole point of the maghar is how the survivors united in one clan, when you do the quest to unlock then, they even have some banners to symbolize some of the clans left, and i only remember three, frostwolf, blackrock and something else

But the clans are defunt.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Khaza-R

As for Burning Blade and Shattered Hand, they seem to be more open as their clan exists more to serve a function or common goal rather than share a lineage. I believe both of them have had non-orcs filing positions of leadership. Of course that was mostly in Vanilla and the lore might of changed by now or the clans have been reformed by the event of the Kosh'harg.

I imagine blizz forgot the burning blade clan, or didn't deem worthy/populous enough to make their own clan, but they don't have a organization either, its just a few guys who said are from then.

They should re-use the bit about the burning blade being the elite guard of the warchief/orc high chieftain.

but the shattered hand is a weird case, it was not a clan before this, it was an organization of rogues/spies/assassins, but now it attained their clan status again, so who knows what things will go on in the future, im sure blizz don't

Originally Posted by Syegfryed

But the clans are defunt.

Citation needed

Originally Posted by Skytotem

Citation needed

Do the unlocking quest from the maghar, they tell how they united in one clan, there is no other clans anymore, and they only pay respects for the warsong, blackrock and frostwolf:

Overlord Geya'rah: Your words stir my heart, old one. We still honor the history of our clans, though we stand united as the Mag'har.

Originally Posted by Syegfryed

Do the unlocking quest from the maghar, they tell how they united in one clan, there is no other clans anymore, and they only pay respects for the warsong, blackrock and frostwolf:

That doesn't mean the clans are gone, that's an assumption you're making. Moreover that doesn't mean they 'only' pay respects to those three either.

"Honoring the History" could mean any number of things, one could argue that's not even any different from the current horde where they're all united under Orgrimmar but after the Kosh'harg have revitalized the clans as family units even if they don't have as much defacto political power as they used to have.

Originally Posted by Skytotem

That doesn't mean the clans are gone, that's an assumption you're making. Moreover that doesn't mean they 'only' pay respects to those three either.

It literally means they joined into only one clan and now only pay respect to the history of past clans, and they rly just focus on three, so the others are so gone that they barely care.

that is their whole deal, they are the maghar clan now. Some individuals will retain the thematic of their former clan, like Kaz, and i think there was a dude who was thunderlord in the hunting quest for BFA, but yeah, only one clan, the maghar.

"Honoring the History" could mean any number of things, one could argue that's not even any different from the current horde where they're all united under Orgrimmar but after the Kosh'harg have revitalized the clans as family units even if they don't have as much defacto political power as they used to have.

It was different, there was still clans and they had chieftains, the kosh'harg was merely to give a breath of new life into then, especially the ones who were more forgotten, and to make so the orcs without clans could join one, the maghar as one clan only have geyara as chieftain

I can understand why Blizz would write "One clan." It simplifies things, and the orcs become monolithic. To dig in orc cultures, at least from my writeup, orc clans are competitive, and it would be a mark of great honor for a particular clan chief to be High Chieftain over all the clans...even more so to be High Chieftain over the Horde.

Originally Posted by Syegfryed

Do the unlocking quest from the maghar, they tell how they united in one clan, there is no other clans anymore, and they only pay respects for the warsong, blackrock and frostwolf:

Hellsreach Citadel still flies the banners of all the orcish clans and has encampments for each of them. Mag'har orcs can also take advantage of the clan selection feature after you've unlocked it by completing the orc Heritage Armor questline.

So I don't think that's strictly true. They still recognize the various clans even while standing united as mag'har. As for that quest, it's Eitrigg relating the history of certain prominent orcs (himself, Grom, and and Durotan) to Geya'rah, and they get interrupted by Grom.

Originally Posted by steelballfc

you don't need to "destroy" anything, just like shattered hand, some Orc clans are "dead" and have no members or leaders, some of these clans can be rebuild with other races included in their members, leave the froswolf and worsong alone.

altho there is another solution, make an official title for non-orc members, those whom fighting along side you deserve some sort of honor mention.

Shattered Hand was the best, though! In a game where the two main cities are bustling anthills, Orcs with blades for hands stand out way more! I miss Clan representation of Orcs in the Horde. All clans. Not just the lame'o Frostwolves. "Look at me, I have a fur draped across my shoulders and on my head, that's my identity!"

Originally Posted by Kathranis

Hellsreach Citadel still flies the banners of all the orcish clans and has encampments for each of them. Mag'har orcs can also take advantage of the clan selection feature after you've unlocked it by completing the orc Heritage Armor questline.

So I don't think that's strictly true. They still recognize the various clans even while standing united as mag'har. As for that quest, it's Eitrigg relating the history of certain prominent orcs (himself, Grom, and and Durotan) to Geya'rah, and they get interrupted by Grom.

Yeah... they still stay they pay honour to the story of the clans, and obviouslly will gather with the people they already knew from the past clans, but it is more a memento from the past than an actual thing, even more now that the survivors scramble over to azeroth.

Even their racial is about they gaining an bonus from their ancestors, and you can get all of then, showing how the clans are mingled into one after all these years.

But the clans as a thing, with their own people, culture and chieftain are defunt, there is only the maghar clan with chieftain geyara.

Mag'har orcs can also take advantage of the clan selection feature after you've unlocked it by completing the orc Heritage Armor questline.

come again? never got that with mine

Originally Posted by Syegfryed

Yeah... they still stay they pay honour to the story of the clans, and obviouslly will gather with the people they already knew from the past clans, but it is more a memento from the past than an actual thing, even more now that the survivors scramble over to azeroth.

Even their racial is about they gaining an bonus from their ancestors, and you can get all of then, showing how the clans are mingled into one after all these years.

But the clans as a thing, with their own people, culture and chieftain are defunt, there is only the maghar clan with chieftain geyara.

come again? never got that with mine

you go talk with the orc guy who allows you to change clan and then use the toy

Originally Posted by Kharli

you go talk with the orc guy who allows you to change clan and then use the toy

That is the normal orcs heritage.... not the maghar, he was talking about the maghar ones, which im not aware about.

At best you have the armor with the colors of the warsong, frostwolf and blackrock, but like i said, a memento, the clans don't exist anymore.

Edit: apparently the maghar can talk with the npc to change the toy banner, but even if you stretch that as a lore thing and not just a gameplay shenanigan, it just means a maghar can chose to join the MU clans... the AU clans are dead still